Snowy

Friday Night Philosophy

Comments

I would rather be my own person and find what I find as well, cheers to you Snowy have a great night.
I had that extra JW for you, Worker. Hope you enjoyed it. You have a great weekend, too.
All too much thinking for me - I'm more of a go with the flow type without questioning it all too much. Kimba said to me recently - what am I going to be when I grow up and I said stop worrying about what you're going to be and just BE!
A lot depends on what stage of life we're at. Old fogeys like me have more time to think than we did when we were younger. That's just the way it is.

For me, it is looking out the window as we travel this wondrous journey. It’s marvelling at this universe and the miracle of life

Well-said, Snowy. Very nice post.

Chasing happiness is an exercise in futility. Sit down, enjoy life, appreciate what you have and the love all around, and happiness (or, if you prefer, contentment) will follow.

Thanks bonophile. I think you've got it right. Contentment, as against happiness, seems a better place to be for me too.
We don't feel Happiness. We can only feel unhappiness. Therefore, if you don't feel unhappy, it meeds you're happy. This is Oscar Wilde's view. And mine too.
Not sure I agree with that. Why can we feel unhappy but not happy? And isn't there a sort of in between place where we're neither?
Great post!

It seems to me that happiness is something best explained on two levels: The first consists of this Maslowian hierarchy [to the "n"th degree] where we feel "happiness" at having a full meal, being loved, etc. The second is a state of mind that one chooses to be in.

What I mean by this is this: Let's say someone was fired recently. From here person X can either sulk and become "unhappy" or see this in a different light, choosing to see this as an opportunity to go back to school, something that X wanted to do but couldn't because of the long work hours.

With this view happiness is not something that strikes man every once in a while, it is something able to be enjoyed at all moments, something possible thanks to the power of the mind to construct [or reconstruct] a situation that would allow "happiness" to transpire.


Thank you. I'm glad you got something out of it. I agree that a lot of the time our happiness is dependent on our attitude. I'm not so sure that it is an emotion we can turn on and off at will. I'm presently delving into the mysteries of the human brain, and what bits do what.

From what I've seen, our emotions are controlled from a certain part which does in fact interact with the part that deals with reason, so that what you say about how we deal with negative emotions does in fact happen. I've got a lot more reading (and thinking) to do yet though. I will be posting my thoughts about this on a future FNP.


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It has been suggested that the reason that people with strong religious connections are happier is not because they are religious but because religions create social networks that enhance happiness. The way it works is that when someone in the network is happy, they share that feeling with others in the network, thereby making it contagious. Similarly, when they are unhappy, others in the network help them, reducing their unhappiness. Or, as the old Swedish proverb put it “pain shared is pain halved and joy shared is joy doubled”.

John
I can believe that. So it could be said that anyone belonging to a socially cohesive group is happier than those who don't. I think the herd mentality would also come into play in the case of religious groups. The more who hold to the same beliefs, the more secure the individual feels that those beliefs are true.

So it could be said that anyone belonging to a socially cohesive group is happier than those who don't.

Not necessarily. Consider the eremites and anchorites - groups of early Christians who sought to triumph over sin by avoiding all unnecessary contact. Though the groups were socially cohesive, they nevertheless had poor social networks. Thus, one may surmise that members of these groups were less happy on average than the general populace (even leaving out the mortification of the flesh).

I think the herd mentality would also come into play in the case of religious groups.

And not just religious groups; groupthink is a problem in any social group (consider Bush's White House). All social groups posses power to punish those who differ in opinion, be it through ostracism, denigration, or actual physical punishment. The key is to find a group that rewards those who disagree cogently.

John
Well I agree 100% on this. :-) I'd rather maintain my own individuality then join a cult and give up the responsibility to think for myself. Don't drink the coolaid!
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Excellent post, Snowy. I think about this very subject a lot.

I like your explanation, and I couldn't agree more with your thoughts on religion. For me, religion simply clouded the tough questions in life with the easy way out...because that's the way God wanted it. Don't try to guess God's plan, etc. Freeing myself from the subjugation involved in religion has been a double edged sword. It does leave one with a more complex, weightier struggle to determine where meaning in life is, versus being spoon fed the answer. Always having a stock response might be easy, but it dulls and blunts sensation, the pursuit and joy in learning and expanding one's worldview, and leads one to be more easily manipulated, IMO.

So, I think it's harder...but really, I am happy to be living through that struggle and maintaining my own identity and the freedom of thinking for myself in the process! Like you said, the joy comes in mulling and reflecting upon new information and knowledge every day, without a very restrictive lens clouding analysis of that information. It feels a lot like freedom to me. I don't think I would have it any other way!
We agree again? This is getting to be a real worry, Zack. :o)
Thanks PP. I like your thoughts on the freedom one has when the shackles of religion are thrown off. That is the way I feel too. And I think it brings a happiness that the religious folk can never know. It is the kind of happiness we'd want.

Well what I mean is that happiness is felt very often and if nothing interrupts this process you get used to it, loosing all the excitement it initially brings. Just like a smell, it is there, no doubt but you stop feeling it after a while. Nevertheless it is there, although you don’t think about it, Unhappiness is horrible and it can hurt you so much that you just cannot stop feeling it.



OK, I see where you're coming from. I agree.

bonophil explained it much better than me: "Chasing happiness is an exercise in futility. Sit down, enjoy life, appreciate what you have and the love all around, and happiness (or, if you prefer, contentment) will follow.


This is it: happines s everywhere but we don´t pay much attentio because we are just living our lives. Unhappiness forces you to stop and feel unconfortable, sad and horrible. No-one can ignore this feeling.


Yes, "contentment' probably is a better fit for me. "Joy" is probably what I had in mind for "happiness".
hmm - the "happiness" that comes from religious belief is happiness i can do without, Snowy

i'm with you

that quote by Voltaire sums it up for me perfectly:)

i'm with you

You know, I thought you would be Paikea. Just a gut feeling I had...


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My first question would have to be this: what surveys, where, who paid for them, and how were they conducted? How did these surveys determine who "had religion" and who didn't? What about people who consider themselves spiritual, but not religious, per se? There are too many variables to make a blanket statement like, "religious people are happier" without providing some qualifications.

Actually, the current research shows that a person's happiness is mostly genetically set (about 60%). Things happen in your life that make you more or less happy for a time, but after a few months most people tend to go back to their pre-set level. Some people are blessed with a high happiness set-point, and others, like me, have to struggle to be happy.

But let's assume for a moment that it's true: religious people are happier. My next question would be, "So?" Could I knowingly force myself to believe something that isn't true just to try to make myself happier? It's probably true that children who believe in Santa Clause are happier than those who don't, but that doesn't make the big guy any more corporeal. I have a stronger respect for the truth than to believe in something because it's convenient or makes me feel good.

Following this question, I might ask: "Why?" Is it because God blesses them with joy? If this is true, then does this mean that only Christians are happy, or that people of any religion are happier than people without any religion? My guess is that the community, comradery, structure, and social support that comes from belonging to a religious organization may have a positive impact on happiness. The good news is that people can have all that without believing in an invisible man in the sky.

Concerning Maslow's hierarchy, it is a bit of a misuse to apply it as an explanation of happiness. Meeting the needs of your hierarchy does not make you happier - it just makes you want the things on the next level of the hierarchy. Maslow's hierarchy is model of motivation, not happiness.

Good response, Paxton. The article referred to is here which points to the source of the research. For an atheist like me, the article was full of holes, but for those who want to believe, then so be it. It's when they try to impose their beliefs on me that I burr up.

Your observation that the Maslow hierarchy is not a recipe for happiness is so true, but in this materialistic world we live in, many mistake it for that.

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